Match Rules

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Re: Match Rules

Postby Clog » Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:09

Martan wrote:the most annoying thing about drop shots is when opponent make drop shot and then he rush the net, I think it is most unfair cause I can't remember if I ever seen it in real tennis :)


With all respect, you mustn't watch a lot of real tennis then... ^^
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Re: Match Rules

Postby ELTXETXU » Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:50

Clog wrote:
Martan wrote:the most annoying thing about drop shots is when opponent make drop shot and then he rush the net, I think it is most unfair cause I can't remember if I ever seen it in real tennis :)


With all respect, you mustn't watch a lot of real tennis then... ^^


Some players use this tactic in real tennis, but it isn't very common. For example i love how Roger Federer uses it. Many times (most of times, i could say), when Federer makes a dropshot, if the dropshot isn't a winner, Federer runs to the net and closes the point with a volley winner.

As an example you can see on youtube a video called: Federer vs Del Potro - Dropshotmania (HD) . Sorry but now i can't share it
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Re: Match Rules

Postby Martan » Sat, 19 Jan 2013 23:41

Clog wrote:
Martan wrote:the most annoying thing about drop shots is when opponent make drop shot and then he rush the net, I think it is most unfair cause I can't remember if I ever seen it in real tennis :)


With all respect, you mustn't watch a lot of real tennis then... ^^



I am not sure I ever seen it the same as in TE way. I think it is more TE thing than ITST thing cause in TE you can make perfect dopshot when you are running onto net to return dropshot and ball is nearly death, you are hitting it just a few inches above the court and you are still able to answer with perfect dropshot and that is kinda unfair :)
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Re: Match Rules

Postby eliomelma » Sat, 16 Feb 2013 23:19

Maybe a good man could spend one hour and make a video with match rules explained...so showing lobs from baseline , lob and + net rushing etc to have a visual aid from old and new members
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Re: Match Rules

Postby Clog » Sun, 17 Feb 2013 00:06

eliomelma wrote:Maybe a good man could spend one hour and make a video with match rules explained...so showing lobs from baseline , lob and + net rushing etc to have a visual aid from old and new members


After what I saw yesterday, this good man may include in the video that players have to play every single match with the character they have chosen for the tournament...
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Re: Match Rules

Postby eliomelma » Sun, 17 Feb 2013 01:27

Why, what's happened?anyone used a different char against you? If yes you had to entry in chat and told to your opponent to change and select the right player. It is different if him asked you " can i use a different char?"and you accepted. In this case , when both accepted it , maybe is right .
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Re: Match Rules

Postby eliomelma » Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:34

Short slices (special shot) for me will be banned from the games and not permitted in matches. In my last training matches my opponents hitted 6-7 times this shot and 7 times won the point!.And in a close match, 6-7 points won in this way make the difference.No way to counter it. What could i do, go in training mode and learn this shot?
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Re: Match Rules

Postby Ugadalou » Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:08

eliomelma wrote:Short slices (special shot) for me will be banned from the games and not permitted in matches. In my last training matches my opponents hitted 6-7 times this shot and 7 times won the point!.And in a close match, 6-7 points won in this way make the difference.No way to counter it. What could i do, go in training mode and learn this shot?


Agreed.It's difficult to respond since it looks like a slice but you can't tell soon enough where it lands and all you can do is get it back in play giving the opponent the advantage of attacking an easy ball.
It's a fun-killer for me when executed, the most anti-tennis shot in TE repertoire.
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Re: Match Rules

Postby inseedious » Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:17

Also to me short slices are not a very fair shot. I saw some players with, for example, del potro, using them to finish some points. Sometimes there are not written rules that are as important as written ones. Short slices can be a good shots, both to change rythm, both to punish defensive players, but were clearly abused. When our tour was more balanced, no one was using this shot, but maybe no one needed to use it, as the game was balanced between attack and defense. I use them sometimes, but I think that using them with federer is way fairer than using them with a good bh player.
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Re: Match Rules

Postby inseedious » Sun, 24 Feb 2013 23:48

I think that we should create a sort of "code of conduct" thread and put it (with this thread) in the announcements section.
There are lots of newcomers and they're not always fair. There are also several questions to discuss about, like dropshots, short slices, body service. There are too many things not clarified yet.

For example, some players constantly drop when their opponent is at net. Do you really think it is fair, or at least acceptable?
Some others abuse of short slicing, because with slow autopos we aren't able to make a decent shot in most of cases, and the short slicer will get an easy winner opportunity on the next shot.
We have said that drop spamming is not very unfair (even if fair players will never do that), as after continuous drop shots the opponent will easily read your intentions. But what do you think about players who always use drop+net tactic on important points?
Do you really think body service is unfair? It's used a lot in real tennis, to make the returner unable to return with an acceleration. There's almost no chance to make a UE if returning a body service with no risky shots.
And what about nets or mishits? I hit a maximum of one net every set, and I just win no more than one point every set thanks to mishits (and I always excuse when it happens), but on the other side I lose lots of points beacuse of nets and mishits. I think it's because, when in hard situations, I prefer to hit clear shots instead of riskier shots that will probably hit the net or turn into a mishit, or just go out. But I'm afraid that some players clearly look for mishits (or even nets?!) during their matches. Mishits happens in real tennis too, but in TE and with slow autopos we can't handle them well, so abusing of them is not so fair.

I'm giving you several points to discuss about. I'd like so much to see some of these points clarified. Please give us your opinions and tell us your experiences (of course considering also that some points of view are just subjective). With your help we'll develope this thread in a better way and we'll have a precise regulation for a even better game experience.
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Re: Match Rules

Postby VMoe86 » Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:26

inseedious wrote:For example, some players constantly drop when their opponent is at net. Do you really think it is fair, or at least acceptable?

Definitely should never be done on court with one exception -- opponent hits a drop shot and rushes the net (there I would also hit a drop shot off the drop shot).

inseedious wrote:Some others abuse of short slicing, because with slow autopos we aren't able to make a decent shot in most of cases, and the short slicer will get an easy winner opportunity on the next shot.

I wouldn't say that this is solely related to Slow AutoPosition: On MG Tour, with Previews On and Average AutoPosition, there also have been complaints about it (even from Top 10 players). The short slice should be used to bring those standing further or far back closer to the baseline: This is where it is the most effective. Even then, I've hardly used that shot (two hands are enough to count the amounts of short slices I've hit). I pretty much can only hit that shot efficiently when my opponent is on defence and giving me enough time or off some 2nd serves. Since I prefer to hit nice winners, I don't use it much.

About dealing with it: When I am close to the baseline, not many issues, when I'm on defence it gets more difficult -- ok for me.

What I don't like about it: The higher your consistency on a specific wing, the shorter your short shots are (including short slice) and the lower your spin, the better (or rather lower) your slice is. So: del Potro has a better BH short slice than Federer. :lol: That's part of TE and since it is a core mechanic it is not going to change until TE 2014/15. ;)

inseedious wrote:We have said that drop spamming is not very unfair (even if fair players will never do that), as after continuous drop shots the opponent will easily read your intentions. But what do you think about players who always use drop+net tactic on important points?

I don't like it, since there are no "flicks" in TE. Players do that in real tennis (drop shot + rushing to the net), but there you have more options than in TE for touch shots at the net. Here you need quite some time to do something interesting off a drop shot (still possible to hit a lob off a drop shot, for example).

inseedious wrote:Do you really think body service is unfair? It's used a lot in real tennis, to make the returner unable to return with an acceleration. There's almost no chance to make a UE if returning a body service with no risky shots.

Who says that body serve is unfair? Just hit a short slice off it and enjoy. :c As you said: Returning a body serve with b1 or b2 shots is pretty easy (one still has to time the sweespot to make an efficient shot).

inseedious wrote:And what about nets or mishits? I hit a maximum of one net every set, and I just win no more than one point every set thanks to mishits (and I always excuse when it happens), but on the other side I lose lots of points beacuse of nets and mishits. I think it's because, when in hard situations, I prefer to hit clear shots instead of riskier shots that will probably hit the net or turn into a mishit, or just go out. But I'm afraid that some players clearly look for mishits (or even nets?!) during their matches. Mishits happens in real tennis too, but in TE and with slow autopos we can't handle them well, so abusing of them is not so fair.

I love when my opponent gives me mishits landing in the service area, deep ones can be tricky (especially those of spinny defenders). Net cords, they seem to be a French specialty. Overall: If you are standing too far, then you are more likely caught by a mishit landing short. Per set maximum of one mishit and maximum one net cord? Don't make me watch all DMO files including you -- such claims can backfire. ;)
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Re: Match Rules

Postby inseedious » Sun, 03 Mar 2013 21:37

VMoe86 wrote:I love when my opponent gives me mishits landing in the service area, deep ones can be tricky (especially those of spinny defenders). Net cords, they seem to be a French specialty. Overall: If you are standing too far, then you are more likely caught by a mishit landing short. Per set maximum of one mishit and maximum one net cord? Don't make me watch all DMO files including you -- such claims can backfire. ;)


However with mishits i'm talking about just deep ones. To me, short mishits are well balanced because they penalyze the "mishiter", but deep ones are just so... :evil: And, believe me, there's someone who complains about body services. In high level matches, body second services or very wide ones are the only way to prevent a return winner or a very offensive return.
I'm happy there's someone insterested about this discussion, but I think it's a very focussed argument, several players should give their opinion, in order to build a very good rule statement.
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Re: Match Rules

Postby VMoe86 » Sun, 03 Mar 2013 21:56

My post is pretty much a summary of an internal discussion, which is why it took a bit longer for a response (and I was away for two days).

I differentiate between mishits going deep (those have some awkward trajectory you don't see from some clean hitting) and those last instance b1 or b1+down counters hit with the sweespot (or hit cleanly) landing deep. The latter is kind of random, they can land shorter, they can land right on the baseline, and sometimes also go out (rarely, though). Not sure how the game would play without those deep counters, I guess b1+b2 being used even more than it is now.

You don't have to mention any names regarding body serves since I'm pretty sure to know that person. ;)
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Re: Match Rules

Postby inseedious » Sun, 03 Mar 2013 22:16

There's more than a person complaining about them, I was just talking generally :)
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Re: Match Rules

Postby Elias » Thu, 07 Mar 2013 22:00

A quick notification : two entries have been added recently in the match rules :

  • If the server is using a b2 (slow) serve AND is serve and volleying, you can use a lob on return.
    All other situations for lob returns are not allowed.
  • No drop shot when the opponent is at the net and you are not -- only exception is when the opponent does a Drop + Net Rushing combination.
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